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#647225 - 19.08.10 08:46 [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe
ConRAD
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Very strange summer this one !!!
After nearly one year of preparation for a trip in the Balcans, I'm now forced to completely review my "cycling" programs and that's why I'm asking your support.
Just yesterday I decided to anticipate a trip to Sweden where my son is living.
So I'll fly to Malmo next week and from there I'll go south till Italy where I'm living.
Now the question:
supposing to enter Germany from Flensburg (on the Danish border) and wishing to point south to Karlsruhe-Basel-Gotthard, which way do you suggest ?? Are there specific cycling paths to follow ??
Unfortunately I didn't have time to buy any guide but if you tell me the title I'll manage to enter the first bookshop in Flensburg and of course buy it.
I'm not interested to visit towns, I'm not even intersted to enter the big/huge urban areas of towns such as Hamburg, Frankfurt, etc.
I'm a bit afraid because such an area appears extremely difficult for cycling ... but I want to do it.

PLEASE, I URGENTLY NEED ANY TYPE OF GOOD SUGGESTION...

Thank you in advance.
Corrado

Geändert von ConRAD (19.08.10 08:49)
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#647347 - 19.08.10 13:11 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
bike&skate
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Hi Corrado,

Look here: www.rheinradweg.eu

It is in English ,too.

More later,...i have to work.

Regards
Dieter
Gruß Dieter
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#647385 - 19.08.10 14:31 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
juewe
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Hi Corrado,

i would prefer travelling this route
a) Flensburg - Glückstadt (no specific cycling path here),
b) crossing in Glückstadt the Elbe with the ferry (allthough youre missing to visit Hamburg)
c) heading south from Wischhafen to Bremen
d) using the Weserradweg (http://weser-radweg.de/) along the river Weser
e) and then the Fuldaradweg (http://www.fuldaradweg.de) along the river Fulda
f) nearby Schlitz using the Vulkanradweg (http://www.vulkanradweg.de/neu-bahnradweg-hessen.html) from Schlitz to Hanau or Frankfurt
g) and finally from Frankfurt or Hanau along the river Main to the river Rhine, using the Rhine-Radweg upto Basel or whatever.

imho the Rhine-Radweg is ennoying - espacially the parts south of Karlsruhe until Freiburg.

hope that helps.
ciao Jürgen

edit:
you mentioned guides:
* publisher bikleline, Weserradweg,
* same publisher Fulda-Radweg
* same publisher Rhein-Radweg (Attention, there are 3 different ones, each handling different parts; you need No 2

The other parts i mentioned, i don't know a specific guide. Perhaps your familiar with "normal" maps, so the ADFC Radtourenkarten will help you. The Vukanradweg-Trail is easy to handle w/o a map, i guess. It's just an abandonned Railtrail, now an asphalt street like a small ribbon alongside and over the Vogelsberg (easy to ride allthough climbing up).

Geändert von juewe (19.08.10 14:43)
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#647387 - 19.08.10 14:54 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
juewe
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Perhaps your post didn't catch the usual attention since you posted in Topic "Find a partner",
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#647430 - 19.08.10 17:58 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: juewe]
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Hi, I'd look at his MAP.

There are several paths across Germany inside it; you can surely find the favourite way. But then the related guide books would be necessary, otherwise you could lose the way; so you should have time to buy them somewhere...

But I would have no worries about places like Frankfurt, I crossed it in 2009 and all was simple, with a perfect bike path along the river... absolutely no problem, better than the country roads.

My suggested way is this:

Nordseekusten-Radweg 3
Nordseekusten-Radweg 2
Weser-Radweg (Bremen - Gottingen)
Ederauen-Radweg
Oranier-Route (Koblenz)
Rhein-Radweg 3
Rhein-Radweg 2 (Basel)

... and then, Switzerland (which I don't know)
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#647464 - 19.08.10 19:39 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
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In Switzerland I suggest the North-South #3 route. Here's some information:

http://www.veloland.ch/en/routen_detail.cfm?id=20813&tour=route&art=national

You can pick up the official guidebook at any bike or book shop in Basel. You can also print free maps here:

http://map.veloland.ch/

Have fun! chris
TrackMyTour.com - an iPhone app for bike touring!
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#647477 - 19.08.10 20:00 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: chrisch]
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So, up to now that's the situation:

GERMANY
1. Up to BREMEN-GOTTINGEN-KASSEL the routes seem to be more or less the same and, so far, they are clear
2. South of KASSEL, I see two possibilities:
2.1 Via Ederauen Radweg+Oranier Route or
2.2 Via Fuldradweg and Vulkanradweg-Trail, which seems interesting but I cant't find it
... however I have to investigate and find out which is the better/shorter one

SWITZERLAND
1. OK, I'm investigating on the link suggested

In the meantime, thanks to everybody.
Corrado
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#647499 - 19.08.10 21:07 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
juewe
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hmmm...
Göttingen isn't on the Weser-Trail, but Bremen and Kassel.
More Infos on Vulkanradweg?
http://www.vulkanradweg.de/strecke-amp-partner.html
also
http://www.radreise-wiki.de/Vulkanradweg

Crossing Frankfurt while riding the Main-River Trail is easy, i agree.

I cycled Vulkanradweg 2 times and (as its on my way to my former home) and i love it.

ciao Jürgen

edit: Kassel on the Weser-Trail *lol*
Kassel is on Fulda Trail which flow into the Weser.

Geändert von juewe (19.08.10 21:18)
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#647671 - 20.08.10 17:28 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: juewe]
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Originally Posted By: juewe

Thank you, I've also downloaded the gpx/gps track from Schlitz to Hoechst and it works !!
Ciao.
Corrado
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#647672 - 20.08.10 17:32 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: Flavio]
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Originally Posted By: Flavio
... my suggested way is this:
Nordseekusten-Radweg 3
Nordseekusten-Radweg 2
Weser-Radweg (Bremen - Gottingen)
Ederauen-Radweg
Oranier-Route (Koblenz)
Rhein-Radweg 3
Rhein-Radweg 2 (Basel)

Thank you Flavio,
have you any specific experience on the Ederauen-Radweg and the Oranier-Route ??
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#647718 - 20.08.10 20:49 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: juewe]
Flavio
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Originally Posted By: juewe
...Göttingen isn't on the Weser-Trail..


True, I was wrong looking badly in the map. So my way would be:

Nordseekusten-Radweg 3
Nordseekusten-Radweg 2
Weser-Radweg (Bremen - Hann. Münden)
* (Hann. Münden - Kassel)
Ederauen-Radweg (Kassel - Frankenberg)
Oranier-Route (Frankenberg - Nassau)
* (Nassau - Koblenz)
Rhein-Radweg 3 (Koblenz - Mainz)
Rhein-Radweg 2 (Mainz - Basel)

* = here I don't know which path could be, it should be investigated; anyway they are only few km
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#647719 - 20.08.10 20:51 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
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Originally Posted By: ConRAD
...have you any specific experience on the Ederauen-Radweg and the Oranier-Route ??


Nothing, I only looked at the map as I did during preparation of my other trips!
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#648162 - 23.08.10 08:17 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: Flavio]
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OK, departure date is 26-Aug-2010, here below the basic itinerary:

SWEDEN
- Lund-Helsingborg: on ordinary roads
DENMARK
- Helsingør-København: cycling route DK_09 [Helsingør-Gedser]
- København-Møn: cycling route DK_09 [Helsingør-Gedser]
- Møn-Padborg: cycling route DK_08_Sydhausruten [Rudbol-Møn]

GERMANY (possibility 1)
- From Flensburg direction West till to reach the route Noorseeküsten-Radweg 3
- From here direction South till Glückstadt on river Elbe (Elberadweg)
- From here ferry to Wischhafen
- From Wischhafen direction North-West to get the route Noorseeküsten-Radweg 2
- Then, somewhere, it should start the route Weser-radweg along the river Weser till Bremen
- Once in Bremen, follow the Weser-radweg till Hannoversch-Münden
- From Hannoversch-Münden, direction West, following the Fuldaradweg till Kassel
- From Kassel again along the Fuldaradweg till Schlitz, just a few kms before the town of Fulda
- From here onwards I’ll take the Vulkanradweg, 95km West till Hanau-Hoechst
- From Hanau-Frankfurt along the river Main (Mainradweg) till to reach the Rheinradweg 2 and, from here South to Basel
GERMANY (possibility 2)
Till Kassel same as above.
- From Kassel direction West along the Ederauen-Radweg and the Oranier-Route till Koblenz
- From Koblenz till the Rhein-Radweg 3 and then the Rhein-Radweg 2 till Basel

FRANCE
Once arrived in Karlsruhe, very likely I will pass on the French side of the Rhein
SWITZERLAND
Nord-Süd-Route 3, Basel-Chiasso taking the old track of the Gotthard
ITALY
More or less I should know how to get home …

After hundreds of trips in Germany, most of which related to my work, it’s the very first time that I have the opportunity to cross the whole Country from North to South.
It will be a big pleasure, and honour, to see, visit and know it from this totally special and surely very challenging new perspective.
Thanks to everybody for your suggestions.

Corrado
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#648271 - 23.08.10 13:23 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
juewe
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Horrido and good luck, Corrado!

Taking the "Nordseeküstenradweg" from Wischhafen up to Bremen is not the direct path.
And it could be difficult, cause you're riding upwind til Cuxhaven.

If you're interested in a shorter trail, have a look here

http://www.radweit.de/hbiz/hbiz.html

Starting from Itzehoe (it's on your route, some 50 km north-west of Hamburg)

This route is planned due to the aim "short, no traffic, asphalt if available and no needless altitude" as all the routes on this hp. The author is also a member of this forum.
Nevertheless, the maps need to be studied (and it takes a while, so my experience, to understand the authors instructions) and perhaps, you have to transfer it to your gps.

If help is needed, you're wellcome!

Geändert von juewe (23.08.10 13:31)
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#648326 - 23.08.10 17:06 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: juewe]
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Originally Posted By: juewe
...nevertheless, the maps need to be studied ... and perhaps, you have to transfer it to your gps...

Definitely interesting but without the relevant gpx/gps file I guess that's not for me tongue
Is the gps track in the link that you sent to me ??
Thank you again.
Corrado
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#648351 - 23.08.10 19:24 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
juewe
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hmmm...not on the mentioned site.

But i found this one (Wischhafen-Bremen)

http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=zbbwehoitkglcikd&referrer=trackList

But i can't say anythong about the quality of this trail - but it seemed to be ok.
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#648397 - 23.08.10 22:04 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: juewe]
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Dear Jürgen,
maybe the trail that you suggest is actually a good one but, considering that I’m alone and that I have something like 2000km ahead to go, well, let’s say that I’d rather prefer to stay after some more traditional routes. Once that I have an Esterbauer guide in my pocket … I could go everywhere (virtually everywhere I mean … of course!!).
Also consider that, once in my life, I’m not in a hurry and that, Cuxhaven wind permitting, I feel like to be in a reasonable physical and mental condition to go everywhere (… ok, ok, …almost everywhere tongue tongue tongue )..
Now one more question (very important !!):
along my long trip North to South, shall I find another wonderful place like the “Fürstenberg brewery” in Donaueschingen where exactly one year ago I had the opportunity to taste one of “the best Weißbier in the world”???

Grazie e ciao.
Corrado

Geändert von ConRAD (23.08.10 22:05)
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#648402 - 23.08.10 22:20 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
juewe
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Dear Corrado,

you're welcome! I'm sure, i know exactly what you meant. Dealing with routes, maps and this special kind of uncertainty - planning a trail through foreign country ;-).

Cuxhaven is ok, and the beach of Duhnen nearby is of local popularity. You're cycling there (between Wischhafen, Cuxhafen end Bremen) in the so called Elbe-Weser Dreieck, home of the Saxons from the term "Anglo-Saxon" (befor they migrate to British Isles).

Beer should be nowhere a problem in Germany, meanwhile Weiss- or Weizenbier is served in Flensburg. So have a good voyage!

ciao jürgen
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#655693 - 23.09.10 23:21 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: juewe]
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Here below a short and preliminary flash report of the trip.
Thank you again to everybody who, with few but nevertheless vital suggestions, gave me the chance to prepare this fantastic journey in an authentic record time.


Left by flight on Aug the 26th from Milan to Copenhagen and then by train to Lund (Sweden), after three “relaxing” days in Lund, it's from here that I started my real planned cycling journey from Sweden to Italy(Aug the 29th).
A total of 2400 km entirely cycled over a period of 25 days.
Twelve nights in the tent, the rest in small hotels and rooms.
- The toughest part of the trip, by far, the Gotthard Pass on the Alps
- The most critical moment a night spent in the surroundings of Oppenheim (Germany) where, due to a contextual local fair in Frankfurt, I coundn’t find just one bed in the whole area. As a consequence, in the evening, with no light and under the rain, literally got by panic, I had to finally set my tent in an apparently not very safe place close to the rail, an area mainly conceived, I guess, as a one of those glass-plastic&paper recycling public yards !!
- The most lovely and charming places along the Vulkanradweg in Germany and along the Canal du Rhône au Rhin in Alsace.
- The most easy to cycle, definitely, is Germany. Cycling paths or country roads everywhere, a reassuring Bäckerei at any village and, most important, a Zimmer Frei when I actually needed it.
- The most annoying and not recommendable at all the North-South Route 3 in Switzerland.
- The most sad and shameful, due to the most absolute lack of suitable cycling facilities, the crossing of Milano area the day of my return home.

SWEDEN
From Lund, close to Malmo, till Helsingborg the path is fifty percent on dedicated cycling-paths and the rest generally on normal low-traffic roads.
The landscape is represented by endless grain fields, golf greens caressing the sea, little leisure ports.

DENMARK
Passed on the Danish side at Helsimbør, the journey keeps on to Copenhagen through national Cycling Route n.9 and then crossing the southern isles of Sealand, Møn, Falster and Lolland using national Cycling Route n.8.
Very useful the gps tracks that I downloaded from internet for free just the day before prior to leaving.
The itinerary is a mix of rural and small urbanized areas often characterised by enchanting corners in the between the forests and the sea.
Fairy-tale and, so far, wonderful houses, all perfectly shaped and maintained, dream flowered and carefully mowed gardens, …hundreds and hundreds of these houses and … most of them simply empty.
An aged couple met on one of the several ferries that I took to pass from an island to the other explained to me that these houses are actually empty and that they do represent a big problems for the owners too because, probably due to the crisis, they are now unable to properly hire them and at the same time they can’t pay back contracted bank loans.

GERMANY
Entered in Germany at Flensburg, I managed to reach the Nordseeküsten-Radweg 3 (NOK3) in correspondence of Husüm, then from here I followed, with some inevitable deviations the official path passing for St.Peter-Ording, Büsum, Meldor, Brunsbüttel, Glückstadt.
From here a ferry on the Elbe to Wischhafen and then, mainly due to a terrible weather, an “intelligent” shortcut to Bremervörde, Rotenburg and Verden where I officially entered in the Weser-Radweg till Hann.Münden.
From here I continued for the Fuldaradweg till Schlitz.
From here I followed the lovely Vulkanradweg till Altenstadt.
From here I reached and followed the Mainradweg till Mainz.
From Mainz I passed the Rhein in correspondence of Nierstein-Oppenheim and I stayed on the left hydrographic side of the river till the border with France (in front of Karlsrhue).
As a general comment I would say that cycling in Germany is quite pleasant and, so far, relatively easy.
More than one time I deliberately abandoned the official cycling path and preferred to follow very normal roads, most of them however and again, with a cycling strip aside, in many other cases very low traffic country roads.
That's, trying to live not only the reality of a somehow confined cycling path but also trying to experience and see by close a more real world made of real villages, real people, a real local economy.
Remarkable the passage for Kassel where at a certain point I’ve got totally lost.
Remarkable the instructions received by a local old man trying to help me in resuming the Fuldaradweg without entering into the Hannover “autobahn”.
Essential the help received by another local man, probably not a native German, who from the height of Kassel outskirts couldn’t hide a certain pride showing and indicating to me the local Volkswagen factory where he had been working, quite likely, since he arrived in Germany several years ago.
Remarkable the stories of very common people hiring “zimmer” or managing little “gasthof”, sometimes in the clear attempt to make a bit more decent their not very high pension.
Great Germany, it’s always a pleasure to travel in this country !!!

FRANCE
Entered in France at Lauterbourg on the left hydrographic side of the Rhein, I followed first the river along the Rheinradweg and then along the Canal du Rhône au Rhin (Alsace).
As in Germany, lovely places, and a direct contact with the real world.
When in France don’t go for camping, use the Gites de France/Chambres d’Hôte, an authentic and genuine contact with local people (same story as “zimmer” in Germany).
In one of them (at Marckolsheim) after that I’ve got the room, in the evening and just half an hour prior to go to sleep, an aged woman in her kitchen was stirring something that made me curious. I couldn’t believe it … she was preparing my breakfast prunes marmalade. Simply wonderful !!

SWITZERLAND
Not very positive indeed this part of the trip.
Coming from France and entering Switzerland west of Basel, without actually getting into the town and without even crossing the Rhein, I then managed to move east reaching the North-South Route 3 close to Olten.
The North-South Route 3, theoretically, connects Germany to Italy, from Basel to Chiasso.
In the reality this is not a cycling route, it’ s not a cycling path, it has nothing to do with Danish, German or French style equivalent patterns.
From Basel to Luzern is an endless and absurd sequence of short stretches sometimes passing in the between cultivated fields, some other time along totally anonymous commercial and industrial areas, .
The rest it’s represented by normal roads, quite often definitely high traffic roads.
From Luzern to Göschenen (where the Gotthard tunnel begins) just a few acceptable stretches.
From Göschenen to Andermatt (where the Gotthard pass road starts) it’s an authentic hell !!! eek
Traffic of any type: normal cars, sport cars, hundreds of motorbikes, TIRs, tourist and line buses ..!!!
In the galleries, due to my very low speed, I sometimes couldn’t follow a straightforward line and so, just for safety, I preferred simply to walk.
From Andermatt to the Gotthard pass and from the pass down to Airolo it’s only and again a very normal road.
From Airolo to Bellinzona and then from Bellinzona to Chiasso a great total mess again.
Are you planning to cross Switzerland using the North-South Route 3 ???
Please … take a train !!!

ITALY
Here I didn’t follow any specific route.
To reach Milano it’s a mess everywhere.

_________________________________

Here below a few pictures:


Sweden, Aug the 29th, the departure date.


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Denmark


Husum, Germany (Nordseeküsten-Radweg 3)


St.Peter-Ording, Germany (Nordseeküsten-Radweg 3)


St.Peter-Ording, Germany (Nordseeküsten-Radweg 3)


Germany, a massive campaign aimed to road safety


Germany, Furstenberg


Germany, Melsungen (Fuldaradweg)


Germany, along the Vulkanradweg


Germany, along the Vulkanradweg


Germany, entering Frankfurt through the Mainradweg


Germany, fishing bicycles in the Main in the Frankfurt area grin


France, along the Canal du Rhône au Rhin


France, along the Canal du Rhône au Rhin


France, Marckolsheim ... here is what you would never expect mad


Switzerland, the magic ferry on the Luzern lake in the between Beckenried and Flüelen


Switzerland, climbing the Gotthard


Switzerland, arrived to the Gotthard pass tongue tongue tongue


Switzerland, arrived to the Gotthard pass tongue tongue tongue


Switzerland, Gotthard coblestone downhill to Airolo

Geändert von ConRAD (23.09.10 23:32)
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#666022 - 01.11.10 13:45 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
universe
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Great trip! Congrats. Nice pics, too. Thanks for sharing.
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#669527 - 16.11.10 12:05 Re: [GERMANY] From Flensburg to Karlsruhe [Re: ConRAD]
peter chris
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Great trip, great experience for sure! Thanks for sharing smile
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