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#1230198 - 17.08.16 21:59 Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl
acharnley
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Yep that's it, I'm not having any success for a German distributor. I was hoping someone here may have a contact they can nudge. Ideally one of the bigger shops would be better as I want to pitch the D1 against the big boys.

PS) As for this other German product's efficiency, you'll find it's electrically impossible using today's technology to get better efficiency than the D1. Evidence is better than talk...

https://www.igaro.com/res/route.main.d1/efficiency.pdf

Will include a B&M USB Werk next week. I expect it to be slaughtered (but we shall see).

Geändert von acharnley (17.08.16 22:08)
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#1230201 - 17.08.16 22:09 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
superaxel
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I guess your problem could be, that you contacted retailers and no companies with a focus on distribution.

Did you send them a sample to test it? No one will buy items for his shops as long as he really thinks it can be a success! Give them a chance to test your products function, quality, handling, ...

Axel
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#1230204 - 17.08.16 22:18 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
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#1230208 - 17.08.16 22:29 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: superaxel]
acharnley
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I would have thought rose.de, bike-discount.de were wholesalers as well as distributors?

I send a D1 to SJSCycles in the UK (a well known Touring specialist) and they took it. I've not got to that point with a German company. I'm pretty sure the English email is just ignored, and/or because there's so many in Germany they may think it's yet another typical converter (which isn't true - the efficiency is way ahead and it has things like a titanium case and lifetime warranty). It should be easily accepted if I can get it noticed.

Thanks,
Andrew
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#1230210 - 17.08.16 22:38 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
superaxel
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The point is, you are not the only person with new inventions and great ideas. Those companies receive loads of "inventions" and ideas. The bicycle industry is crowded with inventors, because everyone has a relation to bicycles, and everyone knows one special thing to change and make the bike better.

You must be different to get in touch with businesses.

For resellers your product has a risk: you are providing lifetime warranty. But WHO knows how long your company will survive? When you have to close your business, there will be angry customers to be served by the german distributor.

In fact there is a number of USB converters on the german market, and compete with very strong names and brands... customers will mostly buy those.

The price of your product is quite high compared to other USB chargers. And it does not seem to have THAT special USP to divide from others. In fact it seems more simple and less funtions than others. And in the end a distributor needs a good margin to take in your product.

Maybe it could be a way to provide a direct marketing to some bike shops in Germany. As your product is a success, after a while you may find a company to distribute your gadget for the german market.

Axel
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Geändert von superaxel (17.08.16 22:43)
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#1230212 - 17.08.16 22:44 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: JSchro]
acharnley
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I do not consider that an accurate method to compare efficiency - you should measure wattage in -v- wattage out rather than just speed (which also differs on wheel size, tyres etc), however that being said, I'd be up for comparing against it.

The D1 would track the pink line or better (I know 3W at 12kph is possible with a 700c wheel) but I've not ramped up the load at this speed to get the max wattage. Maybe it would be the same, maybe it would beat it. It certainly wouldn't loose, I'm sure of it.

Feel free to send me one and I'll add it to the database. I'll send it back for free. schmunzel

D1 max amps out is 3A, but I guess the dynamo in this test was fully saturated.

The only way to gain further efficiency is using mosfets on the bridge rectifier, but these pass current both ways which can interfere with any device which does frequency detection (i.e B&M rear light that goes bright when you brake). D1 also has frequency detection to prevent pulsing so this method couldn't be utilised.

Andrew
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#1230213 - 17.08.16 22:51 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: superaxel]
acharnley
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Superaxle -> I could offer a standard B&M 2yr warranty instead if that makes you happy? schmunzel

The price could be lowered by using a plastic case, not sealing it properly (hello B&M Luxos) etc

D1 has a life-time warranty not for the fun of it, if it were to fail I'd be loosing a lot of money. It has it because it's quality is better so I can accept the very small risk of something going wrong (titanium case, IP67 rated (epoxy not gasket sealed like the plastic B&M), 25yr life internal electronics, 10x main capacitor working life over those found in the German units).

As you can see, I'm convinced that quality isn't the problem - just that it's not being picked up. Everyone that's bought one loves them. Also, to date I've had no returns (or failed units).

I may have to pay somebody in German to try and make contact for me...

Andrew

Geändert von acharnley (17.08.16 22:52)
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#1230222 - 18.08.16 02:15 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
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@acharnley, not sure if you are aware of the Eurobike 2016 trade fair in Friedrichshafen from August 31st to September 4th, which sounds like a great opportunity to get in contact with basically everybody in the German bicycle business.

It's probably too late and too expensive to set up your own booth there, but maybe you can find a company that is willing to host you. At least you could go there an try to talk to the distributors at their booths.

Cheers
tadzio


PS: the Forumslader is not your direct competitor, as it incorporates "cache" batteries. But Jens and his team put a lot of effort into optimizing it, and the diagram you saw is only a very small portition of the results of their measurements.

Btw, what is that black blob on the output cable - a capacitor that was too big to fit into the housing?

Freiheit ist immer die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden.

Geändert von tadzio (18.08.16 02:15)
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#1230264 - 18.08.16 11:33 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
Flachländer
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Originally Posted By: acharnley
Superaxle -> I could offer a standard B&M 2yr warranty instead if that makes you happy? smile


You will run up hart against EU laws. It is basically illegal to sell stuff without a specific basic warranty in the EU. Apple lost millions over this. Additional warranties are of course welcome.

The second problem is the paperwork related to CE . This might entail additional certificates from third parties regarding electrical safety. (For me, CE resulted in serious tests of each individual device we sold. But you don't have 230V AC inside.)

German distributors will definitely ask about these two points.

The next biggy is importing into the EU. UKs "maybe,maybe-not,maybe-soon" exit means you have to deal with EU import taxes at some point. That will cause problems and distributors want stable and steady supply guaranties. I don't think they want a new startup from UK right now.

Most of these things disappear if you sell self assembly sets privatly (like Jens does)... ask him directly.

Outright claiming your stuff is better then the device developed by the local resident electrical guru and only successful startup was also a not-so-bright idea. It might be the case, but do a test first.
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#1230285 - 18.08.16 16:32 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
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Originally Posted By: Flachländer
Originally Posted By: acharnley
Superaxle -> I could offer a standard B&M 2yr warranty instead if that makes you happy? smile


You will run up hart against EU laws. It is basically illegal to sell stuff without a specific basic warranty in the EU. Apple lost millions over this. Additional warranties are of course welcome.

Sorry, I don't see how that relates to this case. Two years warranty normally is sufficient, there is now law (in Germany) requiring more than that! Also the problem would not really affect the producer but the dealer.


Quote:
The next biggy is importing into the EU. UKs "maybe,maybe-not,maybe-soon" exit means you have to deal with EU import taxes at some point. That will cause problems and distributors want stable and steady supply guaranties. I don't think they want a new startup from UK right now.


All quite speculative. But as a consumer that wants the charger can just order it in UK without any problem anyway (in the foreseable future) I would recomend more focusing on trying to send test samples to magazines. If there are german magazine articles some distributors might show interest.
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#1230317 - 18.08.16 18:40 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
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It would be interesting to test D1 up 100 km/h and see how it performs in terms of high voltage at AC terminals (100V approx at no-load conditions) and overall efficiency.
Furthermore don't forget that a very common 3W6V dynohub can easily deliver up to 5 to 6W at 20km/h. So an output of 2.5W at 20 km/h is roughly the same as most of other similar devices on the market.

Cheers
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#1230334 - 18.08.16 19:29 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
acharnley
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Flachländer -> I think you need to re-read the original thread in which the writer complained that the D1 comes with a lifetime warranty.. He said this could be a problem, so I said he can reduce it to two years for free. wink

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#1230336 - 18.08.16 19:33 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
acharnley
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Flachländer -> you really need to re-read the original thread. The designer of the other product (that's not you by chance?) immediately said his product was more efficient than the Igaro D1.

This was silly of him, because I then pulled the efficiency results (as I'll relink below). These are the most accurate measurements done (more so than driving a wheel). I will gladly add his unit to the results, along with the B&M USB Werk next week - he can send me one without the batteries and I'll send it back for free.

https://www.igaro.com/res/route.main.d1/efficiency.pdf
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#1230337 - 18.08.16 19:40 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: ConRAD]
acharnley
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Originally Posted By: ConRAD
It would be interesting to test D1 up 100 km/h and see how it performs in terms of high voltage at AC terminals (100V approx at no-load conditions) and overall efficiency.
Furthermore don't forget that a very common 3W6V dynohub can easily deliver up to 5 to 6W at 20km/h. So an output of 2.5W at 20 km/h is roughly the same as most of other similar devices on the market.

Cheers


I'd prefer to mimic real-life riding conditions. This does not involve riding at 100KM/h without a device plugged in. Most people buy dynamo hubs to power things, most dynamo hub owners are tourers, and most tourers don't ride at 100Km/h.

If your point is high speed protection, an Audax rider in Scotland a few week back maintained 60kph for 4.5 minutes. It's a lot faster than I can go, and yes, his D1 continues to work.

The D1 produces more than 2.5W at 20km/h. Although I've not tested it in this manor, I've had 4.88V/0.76A at 17kph when testing a Sony smartphone a few weeks back. Perhaps a variable resistive load could have pulled more.

Presuming no device limitations, efficiency dictates what will be given out, and the efficiency chart above shows the D1 is class leading. It's exactly what is needed when touring under arduous conditions - not everyone can sustain 20kph all the time.

Back to the original topic, if anyone does have a contact at one of the bike shops do let me know. I'd be willing to offer a full buy back on unsold units so there's no risk to the reseller.

Thanks, Andrew

Geändert von acharnley (18.08.16 19:45)
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#1230346 - 18.08.16 20:49 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
ConRAD
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Originally Posted By: acharnley
... the D1 produces more than 2.5W at 20km/h ...

... exactly as any other similar device on the market, so why should I buy yours one?
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#1230353 - 18.08.16 21:32 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: ConRAD]
acharnley
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Perhaps what I should have said is if you take another device, but a resistive load of an appropriate value across it, do the same for the D1, and keep the speed the same - you'll get more wattage from the D1. You can't make energy, only convert it. The D1 converts more and the figures in the chart posted above prove it.

I'm quite happy to compare with one of the devices mentioned earlier. I don't need the batteries (they lessen efficiency), just the circuit board will be enough to produce the figures.

If you're not after efficiency, perhaps the ultra small size, the titanium case, the epoxy IP69 inner, the resilience (components are 25yr rated, the outside capacitor has a 10x increase in working life over standard). The lifetime warranty. The rebuildable USB port...

The price is much less than a Supernova The Plug, a bit less than an eWerk and a bit more than USB Werk (at least in the UK). Read the igaro.com website and if it still doesn't blow your skirt up... let me know why.

smile
A.
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#1230358 - 18.08.16 21:41 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
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Originally Posted By: acharnley
Flachländer -> I think you need to re-read the original thread in which the writer complained that the D1 comes with a lifetime warranty..


Limited lifetime warranty does not nessarily cover what the law requires. I have been at that point too, trust me it is complex. The simplified version is 6 months warranty, no-questions-asked + 18 months warranty during which the customer has to prove the product was faulty at sale. Depending on your terms, "limited" is a deal breaker. If you bail out, the local dealer has to take over responsibility for your product. Guess why the big guys don't like startups...

About the forumslader. I own one, it is slightly better then the test results at speeds around 20 kph (26 wheel but 28" dynamo...), measured over longer distances. I would not dismiss losing against it. The team behind it did not comment so far. PN JensD, he does not read every thread here.
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#1230362 - 18.08.16 21:59 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
acharnley
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The D1 can't loose when it's being used to charge, it's electrically impossible.

Where it will loose if the rider goes very fast and doesn't have anything plugged in - at that point the protection kicks in and begins generating heat. The titanium case takes care of it. This is the downside from not using an inline darlington shunt, but it gives much higher efficiency when stuff is plugged in.

The real reason others use darlington shunts is the cheap plastic cases which can't handle the dissipation. Aluminium (or Titanium as with the D1) costs more $.

On warranty, the limited warranty only applies to the USB port. This is clear - if the user allows water to sit in the port it will eventually corrode (as will with any device) and in this case a small charge is applied to replace it. As it's rebuildable the cable won't be shortened or spliced and heat shrinked.

The rest of the unit is warrantied for life - if it breaks anywhere in the world it will be replaced. Obviously we'd prefer some sort of proof rather than subject ourselves to consumer fraud, but if it looks honest that's enough. We can offer this because each D1 is hand built and the quality is of such that it should never fail. 100's have now been sold all around the globe (many the previous aluminium cased design). Not a single warranty request has come in so far.

It's easy to be skeptical in our throw-away world, but as a long-time round the world tourer myself, there are those that prefer reliability and performance above all else.

I feel like a salesman now, that's quite enough!

Andrew

Geändert von acharnley (18.08.16 22:01)
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#1230372 - 18.08.16 23:12 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
Flachländer
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Originally Posted By: acharnley
The D1 can't loose when it's being used to charge, it's electrically impossible


Dynamos are constant current sources. The trick to higher power is more volt and tuning capacities. Jens based his current design on this: http://www.forumslader.de/Schaltplan.236.0.html and pulls up to 10 watt out of a "3 watt" dynamo. What about your way? 2, 4 or more tuning capacities settings? Input voltage seems to be limited to 21V in your case?

The efficiency input-output you measure does not matter that much to the user. Common riders do not feel a 2-3 watt difference. Even tire presure can have more influence then that. But they will complain if the phone/gps/camera... is not fully charged at the end of the day. That's why Jens does not publish efficiency but wh per km or watt vs speed. I can quantify my needs in wh/day, but I cannot tell you if the dynamo is pushing a significant load or is idling. So... do you have a full plot of wh per km or watt vs speed for a commonly used dynamo?

About warranty: the EU legislation about this is published here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:l32022 . It basically requires you to add a small paragraph to your warranty stating that you do acknowledge this state garantied warranty. (Like scott does it here https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/support/warranty/ in the second last paragraph or Apple in the 2 colum of the first table here http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/ ) It is a very good idea to tell dealers how you will honor this required stuff because in the worst case they have to pay back the full price to the customer. Promoting a different warranty, no matter how good, will not solve this problem. This is a problem between you and the dealer, not between you and the customer and it is a question I was asked about. The fines related to this are considerable in Germany.

Geändert von Flachländer (18.08.16 23:13)
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#1230381 - 19.08.16 07:43 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
acharnley
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Higher voltage is irrelevant, if the load is high enough and the converter has no limits then the dynamo will stay at it's nominal voltage (6V) regardless of speed. There is misconception that as you go faster the dynamo speed will be greater - only true if no load is upon the dynamo.

You are absolutely incorrect in your method of measure but completely correct in expectation. What matters is whether the phone is charged - correct, how well it charges depends upon how much power comes out of the dynamo and how much is lost in conversion (the efficiency).

Where this matters is that hard long day in wind, uphill, on a bad road. Your cache battery is dead and your speed is much lower than normal. The dynamo wattage is lower. The converter offering the higher efficiency rating has the best possible chance of device charging.

Cache batteries lower efficiency by 30% but enhance convenience. Better to use a USB powerbank with passthrough because you only get 500 recharge cycles, if you're lucky.

D1 protection begins at 21V.

Minimum loss from using an inline darlington shunt (Jen's design) is 0.7V/8.4V = 8.3%

This is the trade off between efficiency at lower speeds with a device attached and higher speeds with no device attached. I began with the latter and it wasn't enough for arduous touring conditions.
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#1230384 - 19.08.16 07:54 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
acharnley
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Saying a dynamo is constant current doesn't hold value unless you say it "with a resistive load", most USB devices use switch mode regulators to poll the voltage and switch load accordingly - they are not resistive loads.

The Sony M4 Aqua I mentioned earlier, it cycles between 100mA, 500mA, 0.74A and 1.2A, hence the graph of W v kph is not indicative of reality.

I'll stick with the math rather than a drill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_efficiency
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#1230385 - 19.08.16 08:08 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
acharnley
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Originally Posted By: Flachländer
Originally Posted By: acharnley
The D1 can't loose when it's being used to charge, it's electrically impossible


Dynamos are constant current sources. The trick to higher power is more volt and tuning capacities. Jens based his current design on this: http://www.forumslader.de/Schaltplan.236.0.html and pulls up to 10 watt out of a "3 watt" dynamo. What about your way? 2, 4 or more tuning capacities settings? Input voltage seems to be limited to 21V in your case?

The efficiency input-output you measure does not matter that much to the user. Common riders do not feel a 2-3 watt difference. Even tire presure can have more influence then that. But they will complain if the phone/gps/camera... is not fully charged at the end of the day. That's why Jens does not publish efficiency but wh per km or watt vs speed. I can quantify my needs in wh/day, but I cannot tell you if the dynamo is pushing a significant load or is idling. So... do you have a full plot of wh per km or watt vs speed for a commonly used dynamo?

About warranty: the EU legislation about this is published here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=URISERV:l32022 . It basically requires you to add a small paragraph to your warranty stating that you do acknowledge this state garantied warranty. (Like scott does it here https://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/support/warranty/ in the second last paragraph or Apple in the 2 colum of the first table here http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/ ) It is a very good idea to tell dealers how you will honor this required stuff because in the worst case they have to pay back the full price to the customer. Promoting a different warranty, no matter how good, will not solve this problem. This is a problem between you and the dealer, not between you and the customer and it is a question I was asked about. The fines related to this are considerable in Germany.


Warranty

If a German distributor required that in print it would be added to every unit. It is not a requirement of the legislation that it is stated from what I can tell - it is a obligatory to be able to sell within the EU? Anyhow not a problem.

Tuning

On one of the forumslader pages it is talked about adding a capacitor on the input to tune efficiency. He uses 220uF (have to stay within the protected range because a 100v 220uF is too large!).

To answer your question about the black blob, that's a Nicholan 470uF 35V 10X life capacitor, and it's doing what the forumslader page discusses. Obviously 470uF is better than 220uF (assuming same ESR) but there is the size consideration. I tried multiple MLCC's (rather expensive!) in order to fit the capacitance inside the case but the performance wasn't up to it.

Output

Is 3A / 15W maximum. I doubt this condition will ever happen.

Geändert von acharnley (19.08.16 08:10)
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#1230395 - 19.08.16 09:10 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
ConRAD
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1. I want to see a plot [Power] vs [Speed], possibly based on a 28" wheel
2. Your claimed 2.34255W at 20km/h seems pretty low and however not enough to decently power-up even a very common gps such as a Garmin Montana 600 at its max backlight illumination
3. IP69 is irrilevant if I have a look to the IP00 usb connector
4. A minimum of a cache battery is fundamental to allow continuous and regular functioning of connected devices
5. Voltage protection (21V) is too low, you must accept the fact that not always you have a connected load
6. Pricewise it doesn't look to be much attractive

CONCLUSIONS
1. Test it in a more scientific way, not just on the handlebar of your bike keeping a multimeter in your hand.
2. Test it at multiple speeds with different types of load.
3. Test it varying among different dynohubs in such a way to see how it performs with different power generators.
4. Test it in parallel with some led headlight switched-on (with built-in overvoltage protection)
5. Finally make public in a clear way all the results of your tests, show your test set-up and plots obtained

Thank you.

Geändert von ConRAD (19.08.16 09:14)
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#1230410 - 19.08.16 11:06 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
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Originally Posted By: acharnley

It is not a requirement of the legislation that it is stated from what I can tell - it is a obligatory to be able to sell within the EU?


I think only apple truly tested the limits by selling without acknowledging 99/44/EC. They payed about 3 millions Euro in Italy, something of similar in Netherlands and backpedaled very, very fast in Germany. In your case, the dealer will also be involved in the lawsuit.

Originally Posted By: acharnley

On one of the forumslader pages it is talked about adding a capacitor on the input to tune efficiency. He uses 220uF (have to stay within the protected range because a 100v 220uF is too large!).


He uses several sets and switches depending on speed. Basically a discrete form of MPP-tracking.

Assuming you have the CE paperwork and include the mandatory state warranty into your terms... what about german product liability ? Maximal fine is 85 million Euro, realistic fines in your case are about the value of the phone charged by the device or maybe the bikeframe if it goes all wrong. It is independent of product value and it applies by default. There are insurances against this, but they are only valid if the other paperwork is absolutely correct and documented. In practice, the british CPA should have similar worst case scenarios. I guess that's why you registered a Limited in UK?

And read https://fahrradzukunft.de/archiv/ , the "Steckdose" series. Sending them a sample would help your case a lot.

Geändert von Flachländer (19.08.16 11:08)
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#1230512 - 19.08.16 18:39 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: ConRAD]
acharnley
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ConRAD -> you can't seem to grasp the completely scientific efficiency figures I posted earlier. Here they are again:

https://www.igaro.com/res/route.main.d1/efficiency.pdf

I never said it does 2.34W @ 20km/h. I don't know where you read that.

You'll find my results are public, this dataset is linked on the website.

Thank you for your "Test it" conclusions, but the D1 is already tested with all 3W dynamo hubs, and with many LED headlights, and with many, many USB devices at different loads.

There's a few on youtube, and more are upcoming.
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#1230519 - 19.08.16 18:58 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
acharnley
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Click reviews, a current user has kindly posted some comments.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/igaro-d1-dynamo-usb-power-converter/

Geändert von acharnley (19.08.16 19:08)
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#1231125 - 23.08.16 00:22 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
acharnley
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After speaking to a German at a dynamo manufacturing company it appears the Forumslader is the #1 unit to beat. I like a challenge.

England -v- Germany

Match accepted!

Can somebody contact the developer of the Forumslader and ask them if they'd be willing to provide a sample (without batteries) and I'll do the same. We can swap back afterwards if it is desired. I'll be testing the Forumslader under lab conditions, 6V AC @ 250Hz, 10ohm (0.5A) load as per the detailed spreadsheet posted earlier. Hopefully they can add the D1 to the speed test.
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#1231135 - 23.08.16 07:13 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: acharnley]
Thomas1976
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Zitat:
Can somebody contact the developer of the Forumslader


You can contact JensD by yourself. His email address is in the user profile.

The Forumlader is not a commercial product. You can only obtain it from Jens.
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#1231144 - 23.08.16 08:46 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: ConRAD]
Flachländer
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Originally Posted By: ConRAD
Originally Posted By: acharnley
... the D1 produces more than 2.5W at 20km/h ...

... exactly as any other similar device on the market, so why should I buy yours one?


I think you are wrong in assuming 20km/h.

The published tests (first linked pdf in this thread) are run at 500Hz. Shimanos have 28 pulses per revolution (SON: 26 pulses). 500Hz / 28 pulses corresponds to:
=> 17.8 revolutions per second.
=> 1071 revolutions per min.
=> 64285 revolutions per hour.

My bike (26x0.75 tires) is traveling ~ 2m per revolution => 128 km/h for 2.5-something watts according to posted tests (144 km/h for 47-622, YMMV). The high-speed Forumslader option with velogical dynamo outputs 15 - 22W at 60 km/h. It will shutdown well before reaching 128 km/h.

See? He did run tests well beyond your requested 100km/h. You should have asked about lower speeds.
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#1231171 - 23.08.16 10:24 Re: Hilfe einen Verteiler für Igaro D1 in Deutschl [Re: Flachländer]
ConRAD
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Originally Posted By: Flachländer
...

… ah, you are perfectly right, actually I was asking to run a test at 100 km/h because I erroneously was assuming that he was using a real hub generator.
But reading better the pdf file at the beginning of this thread I’m discovering now that “a signal generator with an amplifier had been used instead”, regulated at 500hz/6.05V/0.445A !!!
That’s simply a nonsense, if he wants to make comparisons he must use real generators and not “signal generators” at 500 Hz !!!
Furthermore please be careful because in your calculations you considered 28 poles but in the reality you must consider them as 14 “couples of poles” since you need a couple N-S to produce an hertz and not just a single pole, so 500 Hz makes 256/288 km/h (26”/28” respectively) !!!!
To make tests in this way is a nonsense !!

Here below a picture showing frequency and voltage from a standard Shimano dynohub at 20km/h on a 28” wheel.
Do you see?? 20km/h is 20000/3600 m/s that divided by 2.150 m (28” wheel) makes 2.58 turns per second, i.e. 2.58 X 14 (couples of poles) = 36 Hz (approx)

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